12 Monkeys 4x08 Thoughts
Aug. 12th, 2025 10:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
iariaDemons
+ Oh Deacon. I was but also wasn't expecting his death. I was waiting for a last minute save but nope brutal beheading. However if he had to die what a honestly excellent way to go. I loved him speaking up and antagonising Olivia in order to save Cole. I loved his "For them. And I'd do it again. This I know." ♥ I loved that he didn't flinch or hesitate in his decision and he met his death with eyes open.
+ I am having thoughts. Thoughts like according to the Ouroboros poem the weapon supposedly could only be wielded by the demon. And how Cole was the one who gathered the pieces, who was encouraged to access the weapon, who was going to sit on the throne. The one that the head Seer Primary tells Olivia - "The only one of true importance is James Cole." And so now my brain is whirling and circling and coming to the same conclusion: James Cole is the demon. Am I insane? Is this a crazy theory?
I immediately glomped on the the very obvious idea that Olivia was the demon. It's what the show wants us to believe. The characters believe it and why not? She was the bad guy! Was in fact The Bad Guy of the series. She has been working towards eradicating Time itself. She has black eyes when possessing people, very demon-like! And yet...
Cole. Weapon. Importance. I was skeptical of the chosen one idea that's come up rather more than usual this season but also why is Cole so very important? Is it because he is the demon keeping Time prisoner? The very reason why they keep looping through cycles and can't escape. For whatever reason no one is questioning Cole as being the recipient of the weapon even though they know the poem, so idk.
Nicodemus says at one point: "James Cole as one who could pass through time" and my immediate thought was so can basically anyone. At this point in the show it's pretty damn common, lots do it. But at one point of time it wasn't so common. In fact in the very beginning it was only Cole who did it, who could do it. I wonder if that means something.
ETA: I watched the deleted scenes and now I think I've convinced myself. Bad Primary dude called Olivia an angel. More importantly Nicodemus tells them when Cassie asks why Cole: "He was the first to travel so he must be the last." and that feels like a smoking gun. Cole was the very first person to time travel and in doing so messed up Time and started the looping and cycles that has caused everything, yes/no?
+ Is this series going to end with a big sacrifice??? Cole tells Cassie that there is a fate worse the death - to have not existed at all. Is that Cole's Fate? Does he have to unmake himself in order to return things to how they are supposed to be? I can't believe that's how this is going to end. I think if all the above supposition is true that Cole will be saved somehow by 1- Jennifer, who loves him and is his Seer, and 2 - Cassie and their love for each other that Deacon (a little intensely and weirdly) called out this episode as "The thing between you two is more than the rest of us put together." (which ????)
+ Another thought that I'm not sure how it fits in but: if the virus and the end of the world were undone then Cole and Olivia can't exist can they? Olivia was created by a scientist with Mantis DNA (Mantis wouldn't exist without time travel, they wouldn't have approached the scientist without the Witness) and if Cole is the son of Emma, Emma wouldn't exist without time travel (Olivia), and thus Cole (and Olivia) can only exist WITH time travel. Maybe time travel is the demon? They have to unmake time travel which in turn will unmake both Olivia AND Cole. Hmmm.
+ I am super worried about Cassie's reaction because she is already contemplating the good points of the red forest as a way to not be parted from Cole. If he is the demon how badly could she take that? Would she simply accept it?
+ I loved that as soon as he'd saved everyone Cole was planning to go back for Deacon. He wasn't going to leave him behind again. ETA: I can't believe they cut a frankly very short end part of the Deacon/Cole talk where Deacon says "we were never going to be brothers" and Cole replies "friends?" and they toast on their friendship and new decision to trust each other!! Why would they cut that?? Boo.
+ I found it interesting that when Deacon was beheaded he was looking at Jennifer and then straight ahead (as Cassie? At nothing?), facing death with open eyes. Meanwhile when Cole was about to be beheaded he looked at Jennifer and then at Cassie (hey where is the Katarina acknowledgement and gaze of sad goodbye??) and then he closed his eyes. Don't know that it means anything, I just found it interesting.
+ Loved Jennifer's triumphant "Hey asshole! Say hello to Future Asshole!"
+ I loved Cole's "after you" at the stairs because Jennifer is his Seer and she leads him now. ♥ Also the whole climb the stairs/ring the bell has been a set of instructions that have haunted her for ages, and have been her instructions.
+ After Cole/Cassie saved Jennifer we once again had her running to them... and then hugging Cassie but not Cole. It bothered me a lot the first time. I'm happy for the Cassie/Jennifer love and they deserve more scenes together but Jennifer has always loved Cole best, where is the Cole love?? But it's only now occurred to me that Cole is not huge on affection and he dole's it out only when important for the most part. Is this Jennifer respecting his personal boundaries? In that case I approve.
+ I loved Jennifer taking the lead by grabbing the bell and just making the paradox. "Ring the goddamn bell", indeed. A+ Jennifer.
+ I loved that even with everything seemingly lost and fallen apart Katarina is still not willing to give in. "She won't win. No matter what" How very her.
+ The lead Seer was honestly really mean to Olivia. Just so harsh. It was kind of funny, and then he kept going! I was starting to feel sorry for her lol. I guess he knew she was going to burn him and his alive so he wanted to get in as many digs as possible. You go, dude. I feel like "this princess is no queen" wouldn't make much a mark on her but "Simply a fool dressed in metal" or pointing out that Cole is the important one "Not you. Never you." probably hurt. But him digging into her intimate self with "she fears loneliness was probably the one that pissed her off the most.
+ Jennifer's offended expression when Deacon said he snoozed through The Lord of the Rings lmao.
+ I figured Jennifer was still Primary and I can't believe that I didn't realise that her voices stopped because the Witness was listening.
+ I loved the Jennifer/Deacon running reunion hug. And Cassie's smile (though still no reunion or talk between them! Why!? Grr.)
+ I enjoyed Cassie and Cole's little back and forth on who would go out first and who would be backup, and which of them really is a better shot. Very cute little moment.
+ Dr. Adler A+ on timing!
+ I loved the design of the monkey bell. That there were two of them, identical, that when placed together made two identical monkey faces, brilliant. Also using a paradox to power a time machine is a great idea, love it.
+ Cassie running to grab the bell and stop bad Primary dude was great, and now she has her white streak. Ominous!
+ Hannah and Emma didn't really do much. Shared a little information and got on the same page but there was no real forward movement. However events of this episode had me thinking even more about why the show is doing this storyline right now. If Cole is the demon, if his existance is what is keeping Time lashed into an ouroboros then the obvious answer here is going to be his mother.
+ Oh Deacon. I was but also wasn't expecting his death. I was waiting for a last minute save but nope brutal beheading. However if he had to die what a honestly excellent way to go. I loved him speaking up and antagonising Olivia in order to save Cole. I loved his "For them. And I'd do it again. This I know." ♥ I loved that he didn't flinch or hesitate in his decision and he met his death with eyes open.
+ I am having thoughts. Thoughts like according to the Ouroboros poem the weapon supposedly could only be wielded by the demon. And how Cole was the one who gathered the pieces, who was encouraged to access the weapon, who was going to sit on the throne. The one that the head Seer Primary tells Olivia - "The only one of true importance is James Cole." And so now my brain is whirling and circling and coming to the same conclusion: James Cole is the demon. Am I insane? Is this a crazy theory?
I immediately glomped on the the very obvious idea that Olivia was the demon. It's what the show wants us to believe. The characters believe it and why not? She was the bad guy! Was in fact The Bad Guy of the series. She has been working towards eradicating Time itself. She has black eyes when possessing people, very demon-like! And yet...
Cole. Weapon. Importance. I was skeptical of the chosen one idea that's come up rather more than usual this season but also why is Cole so very important? Is it because he is the demon keeping Time prisoner? The very reason why they keep looping through cycles and can't escape. For whatever reason no one is questioning Cole as being the recipient of the weapon even though they know the poem, so idk.
Nicodemus says at one point: "James Cole as one who could pass through time" and my immediate thought was so can basically anyone. At this point in the show it's pretty damn common, lots do it. But at one point of time it wasn't so common. In fact in the very beginning it was only Cole who did it, who could do it. I wonder if that means something.
ETA: I watched the deleted scenes and now I think I've convinced myself. Bad Primary dude called Olivia an angel. More importantly Nicodemus tells them when Cassie asks why Cole: "He was the first to travel so he must be the last." and that feels like a smoking gun. Cole was the very first person to time travel and in doing so messed up Time and started the looping and cycles that has caused everything, yes/no?
+ Is this series going to end with a big sacrifice??? Cole tells Cassie that there is a fate worse the death - to have not existed at all. Is that Cole's Fate? Does he have to unmake himself in order to return things to how they are supposed to be? I can't believe that's how this is going to end. I think if all the above supposition is true that Cole will be saved somehow by 1- Jennifer, who loves him and is his Seer, and 2 - Cassie and their love for each other that Deacon (a little intensely and weirdly) called out this episode as "The thing between you two is more than the rest of us put together." (which ????)
+ Another thought that I'm not sure how it fits in but: if the virus and the end of the world were undone then Cole and Olivia can't exist can they? Olivia was created by a scientist with Mantis DNA (Mantis wouldn't exist without time travel, they wouldn't have approached the scientist without the Witness) and if Cole is the son of Emma, Emma wouldn't exist without time travel (Olivia), and thus Cole (and Olivia) can only exist WITH time travel. Maybe time travel is the demon? They have to unmake time travel which in turn will unmake both Olivia AND Cole. Hmmm.
+ I am super worried about Cassie's reaction because she is already contemplating the good points of the red forest as a way to not be parted from Cole. If he is the demon how badly could she take that? Would she simply accept it?
+ I loved that as soon as he'd saved everyone Cole was planning to go back for Deacon. He wasn't going to leave him behind again. ETA: I can't believe they cut a frankly very short end part of the Deacon/Cole talk where Deacon says "we were never going to be brothers" and Cole replies "friends?" and they toast on their friendship and new decision to trust each other!! Why would they cut that?? Boo.
+ I found it interesting that when Deacon was beheaded he was looking at Jennifer and then straight ahead (as Cassie? At nothing?), facing death with open eyes. Meanwhile when Cole was about to be beheaded he looked at Jennifer and then at Cassie (hey where is the Katarina acknowledgement and gaze of sad goodbye??) and then he closed his eyes. Don't know that it means anything, I just found it interesting.
+ Loved Jennifer's triumphant "Hey asshole! Say hello to Future Asshole!"
+ I loved Cole's "after you" at the stairs because Jennifer is his Seer and she leads him now. ♥ Also the whole climb the stairs/ring the bell has been a set of instructions that have haunted her for ages, and have been her instructions.
+ After Cole/Cassie saved Jennifer we once again had her running to them... and then hugging Cassie but not Cole. It bothered me a lot the first time. I'm happy for the Cassie/Jennifer love and they deserve more scenes together but Jennifer has always loved Cole best, where is the Cole love?? But it's only now occurred to me that Cole is not huge on affection and he dole's it out only when important for the most part. Is this Jennifer respecting his personal boundaries? In that case I approve.
+ I loved Jennifer taking the lead by grabbing the bell and just making the paradox. "Ring the goddamn bell", indeed. A+ Jennifer.
+ I loved that even with everything seemingly lost and fallen apart Katarina is still not willing to give in. "She won't win. No matter what" How very her.
+ The lead Seer was honestly really mean to Olivia. Just so harsh. It was kind of funny, and then he kept going! I was starting to feel sorry for her lol. I guess he knew she was going to burn him and his alive so he wanted to get in as many digs as possible. You go, dude. I feel like "this princess is no queen" wouldn't make much a mark on her but "Simply a fool dressed in metal" or pointing out that Cole is the important one "Not you. Never you." probably hurt. But him digging into her intimate self with "she fears loneliness was probably the one that pissed her off the most.
+ Jennifer's offended expression when Deacon said he snoozed through The Lord of the Rings lmao.
+ I figured Jennifer was still Primary and I can't believe that I didn't realise that her voices stopped because the Witness was listening.
+ I loved the Jennifer/Deacon running reunion hug. And Cassie's smile (though still no reunion or talk between them! Why!? Grr.)
+ I enjoyed Cassie and Cole's little back and forth on who would go out first and who would be backup, and which of them really is a better shot. Very cute little moment.
+ Dr. Adler A+ on timing!
+ I loved the design of the monkey bell. That there were two of them, identical, that when placed together made two identical monkey faces, brilliant. Also using a paradox to power a time machine is a great idea, love it.
+ Cassie running to grab the bell and stop bad Primary dude was great, and now she has her white streak. Ominous!
+ Hannah and Emma didn't really do much. Shared a little information and got on the same page but there was no real forward movement. However events of this episode had me thinking even more about why the show is doing this storyline right now. If Cole is the demon, if his existance is what is keeping Time lashed into an ouroboros then the obvious answer here is going to be his mother.
